Liz Kendall stops herself just in time from lying about PIP cuts, as she argues with disabled MP

Work and pensions secretary Liz Kendall was on the verge of lying to MPs yesterday as she argued with a disabled MP about misleading comments she made in parliament on disability benefit cuts.

Steve Darling, the Liberal Democrat work and pensions spokesperson, had asked Kendall (watch from 9.43am) why she had repeatedly suggested to MPs in parliament that personal independence payment (PIP) was a work-related benefit.

But Kendall told the Commons work and pensions committee yesterday (Wednesday) that she had never done that.

Darling interrupted her and said: “You said it in the chamber.”

Two months ago, Disability News Service reported how Kendall had refused to apologise after repeatedly misleading MPs by suggesting that her planned cuts of billions of pounds to PIP – cuts that were later withdrawn – were linked to supporting disabled people into work.

On four occasions in just 23 minutes during work and pensions questions in the Commons in May, Kendall had replied to questions about her plans to cut spending on PIP by speaking about Labour’s plans for disability employment.

On one occasion, she was asked about the potentially devastating PIP cuts and told MPs: “We want to improve people’s chances and choices by supporting those who can work to do so and by protecting those who cannot.”

She then replied to three further questions about PIP in a similar way.

But yesterday she came within a moment of lying to committee members about those misleading comments.

Darling had told her she had promised last November, in an earlier evidence session with the committee, that there would be “genuine engagement” over her disability benefit reforms and that she would not be “led by cuts”.

But she then published the Pathways to Work green paper in March which he said would have introduced the “highest level of cuts in the last 10 years”.

He asked her what happened between November and March that led to an “abandonment of those core principles that you had in November? What went wrong?”

Kendall insisted she had “never started with pound signs or spreadsheets, I’ve always started with what I believe can help people with long-term health conditions and disabled people build a better life for themselves.

“Our reforms are based on helping those who can work to do so, instead of writing them off and then denying them any support.”

But Darling interrupted her and told her that PIP was “not to do with work”.

He added: “All throughout this narrative, it’s been suggested that PIP is an out-of-work benefit, when it’s not.”

Kendall replied: “I’ve never suggested that.”

Darling said: “I think you’ve given that impression, when responding to colleagues and myself in the chamber.”

Kendall replied: “I have never given that…” but then suddenly halted her denial, before saying: “Well, I have never believed it, because it’s not true, and that is not the argument I made.

“The argument I did make was that this absolutely crucial benefit is sustainable for the future, and that a doubling of the number of people on PIP over the last decade, if that were to continue into the future, that my real concern, is that the benefit, which is absolutely vital for people, won’t continue in future.

“Where we’ve ended up I think is a good position, where we will make sure that we work with disabled people, the organisations that represent them, to take a really good, long-term look at this benefit, to make sure that it really is there for those who need it.”

She said the terms of reference for the PIP review being carried out by Sir Stephen Timms, the minister for social security and disability, take account of “the big changes that we’ve seen in disability, in society, in the world of work, since PIP came into place over a decade ago”.

Darling then asked her why she had chosen not to consult on the cuts to PIP that were announced in March’s Pathways to Work green paper.

She replied that ministers were instead “consulting with parliament” on the cuts as they were included in the universal credit and personal independence payment bill, and she said consultation was taking place on other parts of the green paper, including measures on employment support.

But Darling said: “But on PIP, you didn’t consult, is that right? There was no consultation on the cuts to PIP.”

Kendall said: “Well, there was with parliament, and parliament took a different view.”

Darling replied: “But you said in November that you wanted to consult with disabled people and then it comes to the biggest cuts in a decade…”

Interrupting Darling, Kendall said they were consulting on other aspects of the green paper.

He asked her again why she chose not to consult on the PIP cuts, and she said they had taken those measures through parliament.

When he then asked her: “Why did you ignore disabled people, please?” she said: “Well, I have answered that question, you may not like the answer, but the answer is because we were consulting with parliament, parliament took a different view.”

Darling replied: “That’s not disabled people, why did you ignore disabled people?”

Kendall told him: “We are not ignoring disabled people, they will be at the heart of the Timms review.”

He tried one final time: “You ignored them in March, can you explain why?”

She said that, in the days after publication of the green paper, she and Sir Stephen had “roundtables with disabled people and the organisations that represent them, so we will just have to agree to disagree on this.

“I do not believe that we have failed to consult disabled people on the Pathways to Work green paper, and going forward we are going to be co-producing the review of PIP in the longer term.”

Meanwhile, the work and pensions committee has launched a new inquiry into employment support for disabled people.

The committee’s chair, Labour MP Debbie Abrahams, said yesterday: “The statistics show us that disabled people face higher barriers to getting into work, and they are more likely to fall out of work. There are also considerable differences across the country.

“This is a worrying trend given the impact it could have on people living in poverty and their health and wellbeing.

“The government has made getting more people into work a core policy focus, and has promised more funding for employment support for those affected by recent benefit changes.

“Its promise of more funding for employment support is an important opportunity to improve the prospects of disabled people, which the government must seize.

“We want to understand the root causes of the persistent disability employment gap and a way to hear ideas for making the routes into work smoother.”

She added: “We’re looking for help from the academic community, employment support providers, advocate groups and people with lived experience to submit evidence so that we can make reasoned recommendations to the government to help improve job prospects for disabled people.”

To submit evidence, visit the inquiry’s evidence submission page by 4pm on 29 September.

Picture: Liz Kendall (left) and Steve Darling

A note from the editor:

Please consider making a voluntary financial contribution to support the work of DNS and allow it to continue producing independent, carefully-researched news stories that focus on the lives and rights of disabled people and their user-led organisations.

Please do not contribute if you cannot afford to do so, and please note that DNS is not a charity. It is run and owned by disabled journalist John Pring and has been from its launch in April 2009.

Thank you for anything you can do to support the work of DNS…